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In case anyone was wondering I make 38,000 Baht a month which is about 1,267 US dollars. Meanwhile, Thai teachers make around five to seven thousand Baht a month and manage fine.

 

but no time to spend anything ? or how do the other 12 hours of your day go? ^_^

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Teachers are underpaid if anything.

 

I'm a bit confused why teachers unions exist in the first place. A teacher should be a high-paying, high-qualifying profession similar to doctors/lawyers.

 

Don't teacher unions lower the salaries? Ruin the competition and prevent a meritocracy from existing?

 

Unions are meant for constructions workers, factory workers, miners, and other low wage professions that require no skills.

 

We should spend more on education, never hurts. I'm all for cutting police salaries though. fucking pigs...

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but no time to spend anything ? or how do the other 12 hours of your day go? ^_^

 

I don't have to work weekends. Between sleeping and the other school related stuff there isn't much other time during the week.

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Judging by the quotes, Nate is either completely retarded, or a very good troll. Damn overpaid, lazy teachers! If there's a problem with our education system, its that we pay our teachers too much! Cut payroll and hire those who REALLY only are in it for the joy of teaching!

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Nate really doesn't troll, he actually believes he's right. Troll's don't, though he has been known to make crappy attempts at trollery when cornered by a troll. Self-defense, you know.

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Yes, they usually need a masters to get hired. It's a pretty shitty salary.

 

No teacher will ever say they are in it for the money.

 

You're being pretty naive. Like any teacher gets off at 3 pm goes home and doesn't work on their next day's class, or homework grading, or administrative stuff.

 

Are you saying 5th grade teachers spend that much time out of class? We're talking primary and possibly high school here, not professors. I don't think a single one of my teachers in k-8 had a master's degree, but that could be a relic of the past.

 

Anyone who believes a teacher works 60 hours a week in a k-6 environment is beyond naive. Anyone who also thinks a teacher who's been at a school for more than a few years makes new lesson plans every year is beyond naive, they are borderline retarded. My roommate of 6 years was a k-9 substitute teacher.

 

Also Vain, what time do you arrive at school and what time do you leave the school? Getting up at 5 am and having a 1 hour morning routine+ 1 hour commute has nothing to do with being a teacher. Just curious to what your actual working hours are. I have plenty of colleagues who do the 1+ hour commute thing, even in Belfast. They live 45 miles away. I also know many people who live in a big city and the commute is worse. I assume Bangkok (higher population density then London) has a fairly difficult commute. I could be wrong and you could live in the basement of the school, but I'm guessing your 5 am wake up is more to do with your routine than your school schedule. Correct me if I'm completely wrong.

 

And let me repeat this.

 

Teachers are only *REQUIRED* to work till 3 p.m. They can take care of their teacher duties, if they need to correct papers, go buy supplies, etc etc, at their leisure.

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Nate really doesn't troll, he actually believes he's right. Troll's don't, though he has been known to make crappy attempts at trollery when cornered by a troll. Self-defense, you know.

 

That's even worse, lol.

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The hilarious part is my aunt is a grade 5 teacher and nate is completely wrong. They need to make new lesson plans every year as part of their job. At least that's how it works in NY.

 

Oh, and she needed a masters.

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Teachers are only *REQUIRED* to work till 3 p.m. They can take care of their teacher duties, if they need to correct papers, go buy supplies, etc etc, at their leisure.

 

Yeah, and everybody who's ever been to school knows that teachers work far more than they're technically required to. Correcting homework, exams, planning out new lessons, helping out students during lunch time and/or after school. Everyone knows it's technically not required, thus they're not paid for it. Everyone also knows that the teachers take up a good chunk of their free time to do it. And it gets much worse during the end of the semester, when they have to work with a deadline to correct 120+ 500 words essays about the same fucking book.

 

I don't understand how you can go to school for 11+ years and still say the ignorant stuff you're saying. It doesn't make any sense.

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So no one here thinks teacher unions actually hinder teachers?

 

I guess maybe because the state pays and they have a "take it or leave it" type of things going on.

 

Private tutors and professors make a lot of money. My friend's dad is a power plant engineering professor, makes money well into the six-digit range. And neither tutors or professors have unions.

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They can take care of their teacher duties, if they need to correct papers, go buy supplies, etc etc, at their leisure.

 

That's not leisure. That's work. If you are doing something for work, even if you are at home, on vacation, in the car, at a restaurant, that's work. Seriously, would you want to grade 25 papers on your own personal time while you could be playing video games, having sex, working out, sight-seeing, etc? I doubt it. It's work.

 

This is silly. Teachers work extremely hard and deal with countless uneducated and unreasonable people and their parents, who are often the same. They should make more money for what they do and be given every break possible. But, let's remind ourselves that this discussion is not about teachers or their qualifications or benefits. If you, like Nate, get wrapped up into whether or not teachers "deserve" what they are or aren't getting, then you've already lost the discussion. You've accepted a false premise and have ceded any kind of common sense argument that could be made.

 

The problem is, and will always be, the unions themselves, the people that run them, and the politicians that pander to them. These unions in question don't make teachers into better teachers. The goals of a union are not increased productivity, increased employment- an argument could be made that unions are actually bad for employment since unionized employees make more, thus decreasing the money available to hire other workers or fund other projects that might increase revenue for the company- or advancement of the goals of the business. The goal of a union is to increase the power of the union with the employees being used as pawns to do so.

 

I don't have any problem with the idea of unions. I have a problem when a union exists to expand the power of the union at the expense of the corporation for whom the employees work, which ultimately hurts the employees.

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Cat, people like their unions because their unions give a collective of workers a voice instead of an individual. One person can complain to his boss all day, but when 80,000 of them do so to a state senator, more shit happens. That's why they exist, and that's why the teachers union is out protesting in Madison for over a week now. It's one of the best perks of teaching as a profession.

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So no one here thinks teacher unions actually hinder teachers?

 

I guess maybe because the state pays and they have a "take it or leave it" type of things going on.

 

Private tutors and professors make a lot of money. My friend's dad is a power plant engineering professor, makes money well into the six-digit range. And neither tutors or professors have unions.

 

Professors make more because of the harder requirements to become one. They also don't get shat on by politicians trying to shrink budgets, and thus don't need a union to represent them as much.

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That's not leisure. That's work. If you are doing something for work, even if you are at home, on vacation, in the car, at a restaurant, that's work. Seriously, would you want to grade 25 papers on your own personal time while you could be playing video games, having sex, working out, sight-seeing, etc? I doubt it. It's work.

 

C'mon "at their leisure" is a common saying. They can do their work at their discretion. They can do it during their 1 hour prep time, or during their lunch, or after school. An 8-3 job certainly will have 2 more hours associated with it, don't you think?

 

This is silly. Teachers work extremely hard and deal with countless uneducated and unreasonable people and their parents, who are often the same. They should make more money for what they do and be given every break possible. But, let's remind ourselves that this discussion is not about teachers or their qualifications or benefits. If you, like Nate, get wrapped up into whether or not teachers "deserve" what they are or aren't getting, then you've already lost the discussion. You've accepted a false premise and have ceded any kind of common sense argument that could be made.

 

I didn't say teachers didn't work hard, I personally don't know about "extremely" though, especially after tenure is given. My point has been that they make a reasonable amount of money for their work, 3/4ths of a year and they get paid above average. If you cared to look at my link, teacher salary was 35-50k for k-12, with an average of 42k. That's good money, not amazing money, but good. I don't think they are over or under paid. But the debate was that they deserved more more more without changing the way the system works, I completely disagree. You keep talking about "winning" arguments. This is my opinion, you can talk like I'm not here and denounce my point of view by bashing my "common sense" or "my false premise" or you can debate and counter my points, or pretend to even. I'm not saying I'm an expert source, just from my experience, teachers don't have as difficult time as they are droning on about.

 

The problem is, and will always be, the unions themselves, the people that run them, and the politicians that pander to them. These unions in question don't make teachers into better teachers. The goals of a union are not increased productivity, increased employment- an argument could be made that unions are actually bad for employment since unionized employees make more, thus decreasing the money available to hire other workers or fund other projects that might increase revenue for the company- or advancement of the goals of the business. The goal of a union is to increase the power of the union with the employees being used as pawns to do so.

 

I don't have any problem with the idea of unions. I have a problem when a union exists to expand the power of the union at the expense of the corporation for whom the employees work, which ultimately hurts the employees.

 

I have a problem with the way teacher's unions have used non-skilled position techniques on their job security. So yes, I agree with this. I want incentives to continue for teachers past tenure. I don't necessarily want the incentives to be based on something like test results, especially not standardized tests. Perhaps if the results were compared inter school rather than intra.

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Funny how the yahoo writer twists the words to make it seem that Walker was the one bringing up things, such as the baseball bat and planting people in crowds. Can't wait till the Senators have to come back and this bill is passed. Meanwhile I hope they keep passing other things just to spite them.

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What's really funny is how the governor thinks absolutely nothing of those who are protesting, and said that if the democrats come back, he can pass any bill his party pleases because once they've sat the congress is technically in session.

 

Also, shouldn't every rational person be a little worried that a governor takes a phone call from someone identifying themselves as one of the Koch brothers? Seriously?

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He was definitely bated and that did really kill the quotes. Also, it wasn't just yahoo that twisted the story. The information Walker did volunteer really made me dislike the guy. The way he constantly said things like putting pressure on the democrats by sending more and more letters of notice to people. These are people and this is their lively hood. I mean, what an ass hole. The fact that he's not open to compromise or to discuss matters makes me wish that he would have opted for a lobotomy over the governor position. It would have fit him better.

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I think the Senators are being dicks. No need to shit on democracy just because the other side is winning.

 

Man up. There will be another election.

 

Though I usually side with the democrats, I'd have to say PK is right here.

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They are acting like children who aren't getting what they want. Though I don't like what the Republicans are doing concerning unions.

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"My legislative tactic to prevent you from implementing your policies is good, wholesome protection against a tyranny of the majority. Your legislative tactic to prevent me from implementing my policies are the actions of spoiled children!"

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"My legislative tactic to prevent you from implementing your policies is good, wholesome protection against a tyranny of the majority. Your legislative tactic to prevent me from implementing my policies are the actions of spoiled children!"

 

This.

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