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Catwalker

GOP 2011: Death Match

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First real debate tonight- meaning all the candidates are involved. I know most of you guys don't really care, but just in case you wanted to see any of the candidates.

 

Looking forward to hearing from Romney and Cain. And that's about it.

 

May 5th, 2011 Watch Entire Video (83 minutes)

Location: Peace Center in Greenville, SC

Sponsor: Fox News and South Carolina Republican Party

Participants: Johnson, Paul, Cain, Pawlenty, Santorum

 

June 13th, 2011 Watch Entire Video (100 minutes) – Post-Debate Analysis

Location: Saint Anselm College in Manchester, NH

Sponsor: CNN, WMUR-TV and New Hampshire Union Leader

Participants: Bachmann, Cain, Gingrich, Paul, Pawlenty, Romney, Santorum

 

July 10th, 2011 Postponed Indefinitely

Location: The M Resort, Las Vegas, NV

Sponsor: The Daily Caller, Americans for Tax Reform and Citizen Outreach Foundation

Participants: TBD

 

August 11th, 2011 Watch Entire Video (80 minutes)

Location: Iowa State University in Ames, Iowa

Sponsor: Fox News, The Washington Examiner and the Republican Party of Iowa

Participants: Bachmann, Romney, Pawlenty, Paul, Cain, Huntsman, Santorum, Gingrich

 

September 7th, 2011 8pm EST on MSNBC and CNBC

Location: Reagan Library in Simi Valley, CA

Sponsor: Reagan Library, NBC News and Politico

Participants: Perry, Paul, Huntsman, Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, Bachmann, Cain

 

September 12th, 2011 8pm EST on CNN – Submit Questions

Location: Florida State Fair Grounds in Tampa, FL

Sponsor: CNN and the Tea Party Express

Participants: TBD

 

September 22nd, 2011 Air time TBD on Fox News

Location: Orlando, FL

Sponsor: Fox News and Florida Republican Party

Participants: TBD

 

October 11th, 2011 Air time TBD on Bloomberg Television

Location: Dartmouth College in Hanover, NH

Sponsor: Bloomberg, The Washington Post and WBIN-TV

Participants: TBD

 

October 18th, 2011 Air time TBD on CNN

Location: Las Vegas, NV

Sponsor: CNN and the Western Republican Leadership Conference

Participants: TBD

 

November 9th, 2011 8pm EST on CNBC

Location: Oakland University in Rochester, MI

Sponsor: CNBC and the Michigan Republican Party

Participants: TBD

 

December 10th, 2011 Air time TBD on ABC

Location: Des Moines, IA

Sponsor: ABC News and Republican Party of Iowa

Participants: TBD

 

January 12th, 2012 Air time TBD on PBS

Location: Iowa Public Television in Johnston, IA

Sponsor: Des Moines Register and Iowa Public Television

Participants: TBD

 

January 30th, 2012 Air time TBD on Fox News

Location: Des Moines, IA

Sponsor: Fox News and Republican Party of Iowa

Participants: TBD

 

February, 2012 Air time TBD on ABC – Likely between February 7th and 13th

Location: NH

Sponsor: ABC News and WMUR

Participants: TBD

 

February, 2012 Air time TBD on Fox News – Likely between the 19th and 27th

Location: SC

Sponsor: Fox News and South Carolina Republican Party

Participants: TBD

 

March 5th, 2012 Air time TBD on NBC

Location: Reagan Library in Simi Valley, CA

Sponsor: Reagan Library, NBC News and Politico

Participants: TBD

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I was going to watch it while playing a drinking game, but decided not to. I'd rather read. It should be entertaining to watch all the republicans turn on the more moderate (Romney) for his now-abomination of socialized healthcare.

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Yeah, I read somewhere (MSNBC?) that she's really good with the zingers against Obama, and because of her outspokenness against him, is really the only one that can take on Romney right now.

 

We're doomed.

 

Congratulations, Democrats, on four more years of Obama.

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Congratulations, Democrats, on four more years of Obama.

 

Called that months ago.

 

Romney is their most reasonable, but front-runners at this point usually don't mean anything. Pawlenty has a shot mostly because nobody knows who he is, so he can make his image be whatever he wants. The rest have far too many flaws to make it, imo. That said, a Romney-Bachmann ticket would get the reasonable Republicans someone to cheer for (Romney) and the retarded Republicans someone to cheer for (Bachmann), so I could see that compromise working. Oddly enough what would really make it happen would be Palin bowing out and bestowing her blessing upon Bachmann. That would be hilarious.

 

But yeah, the rest of them are fucked. Gingrich's campaign imploded and the public dislikes him, Palin is ... Palin, Bachmann is a more hardcore version of Palin (she's just less well-known), Cain is borderline racist. Guiliani would still make an interesting candidate, but he's failed so miserably in 2008 that I don't see how 2012 would be different.

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Called that months ago.

 

Whatever.

 

Cain is borderline racist.

 

Cain is black. It's impossible for him to be racist.

 

Guiliani would still make an interesting candidate, but he's failed so miserably in 2008 that I don't see how 2012 would be different.

 

He didn't really fail so much as fizzled out. There was just too much time and not enough money between the first primaries/caucuses and the later ones.

 

I was really hoping Giuliani would run again because I think he would have good shot this time. I think he learned (hopefully) from last time not to bring up 9/11 every time he opens his mouth.

 

I do agree that a Romney/Bachmann ticket would win. Bachmann can't possibly be worse than Biden. Or even Gore.

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I was being facetious. I still think it's silly that our current president got a pass for his attendance of a racist/bigoted church for twenty years.

 

Seriously though, I think anyone can be racist- even against their own race.

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Cain's actually said things which are racist. Obama hasn't.

 

As for predicting it, I'm too lazy to go find it, but I did say it, probably on these forums.

 

I have thought about it and have reversed my stance. I think Romney is not going to pick Bachmann. He has very little to gain by doing so. She will Palin his campaign, in that those who think him reasonable in the middle and the left will be scared off by the raging idiocy of his VP. He'll get the tea party vote, sure, but there's not a lot of those and they're going to vote for him anyway (barring a significant TP 3rd party bid, which is unlikely IMO). Either way though, I don't think the republicans will win in 2012.

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There are only two issues the republicans can win on - ObamaCare and the economy. Regardless of fairness or which side is right, wrong, lying or soothsaying.... Republicans can win by focusing on ObamaCare and the economy; democrats win by focusing on social issues. 4 years is too long for them to again successfully hang the economy around Bush's neck.

 

 

 

Best chance the republicans have is to run a candidate who focuses on the economy, showcases a different way to fix it than the failed policies of the Bush and Obama administrations, and doesn't waste time bringing up social issues like marriage amendments, don't-ask-don't-tell, Roe-v-Wade, and every other topic the democrats are hoping to use to distract everybody from the economy. And it doesn't matter if the candidate brings them up or not - any candidate perceived as a social conservative will, by their presence, ensure that their opponents keep them in the forefront.

 

A Romney-Bachmann ticket is the perfect chance for the democrats to win.

 

As far as Bachmann... she's awful; not because she's the Tea Party favorite, but because she embodies my worst fears of the Tea Party movement - a social hyper-conservative jumping in front of what started as a fiscal revolution, saying the right things, and proclaiming leadership. She subverts the fiscal message with her social one, which turns off the real moderates in the country, and at the same time destroys our nation's best chance at pulling back from the brink of real financial disaster that the establishment of both parties have helped create.

 

If she ends up on the ticket, it will shore up the religious right at the expense of the independent voters. Brilliant move: pander to the votes you'll get anyway while losing the ones that you actually need.

 

 

 

Romney removes the discussion of ObamaCare - which is an otherwise winning issue for the republicans.

Bachmann shifts the focus to social issues - which is a losing issue for republicans - not on it's merits - but because it shifts discussion away from the economy.

 

That ticket is the worst possible combination for the republicans.

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I agree with everything except with the theory that Romney is a lock for the votes of the religious right. If Romney gets the nomination, he's going to have a hard time keeping that portion of the voters, since he's not a "real" Christian, which is "worse" than simply not being religious at all. He's a pretender because he's Mormon.

 

I personally like Romney, but that's because he was my pick over McCain in 2008. I don't know enough about the other candidates to know if there's someone else that I might like more. I dislike Bachmann and think she'll get Palinized/Borked, but I don't think she'll take it like Palin did. I really think she would fight fight back, which might endear her to the party... as if she needs that anyway.

 

I'll have to watch the next few debates to see if there's someone else that stands out for me.

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I agree with everything except with the theory that Romney is a lock for the votes of the religious right. If Romney gets the nomination, he's going to have a hard time keeping that portion of the voters, since he's not a "real" Christian, which is "worse" than simply not being religious at all. He's a pretender because he's Mormon.

It's not that Romney is a lock for the RR... but where else will they go? Do you see those who vote based solely on their religious-based issues as ever voting for Obama? They'll bitch and moan that he's mormon, but in the end, they'll hold their noses and vote for him because they'll believe they share more values with him than they do with Obama.

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It's not that Romney is a lock for the RR... but where else will they go? Do you see those who vote based solely on their religious-based issues as ever voting for Obama? They'll bitch and moan that he's mormon, but in the end, they'll hold their noses and vote for him because they'll believe they share more values with him than they do with Obama.

 

I thought that about McCain, too, and we still got Obama. But, I guess four years is a long time to regret not voting for something that didn't EXACTLY match up to the ideal candidate.

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You know, as much as I'd LOOOOOVE to have yet another discussion about the merits of Obama's presidency, I'd really like to keep this thread dedicated to discussing the GOP primary process. I don't mind if everyone contributes, but I'd like to keep the usual "You suck, my side is better" banter out of it.

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Cain's actually said things which are racist. Obama hasn't.

 

As for predicting it, I'm too lazy to go find it, but I did say it, probably on these forums.

 

I have thought about it and have reversed my stance. I think Romney is not going to pick Bachmann. He has very little to gain by doing so. She will Palin his campaign, in that those who think him reasonable in the middle and the left will be scared off by the raging idiocy of his VP. He'll get the tea party vote, sure, but there's not a lot of those and they're going to vote for him anyway (barring a significant TP 3rd party bid, which is unlikely IMO). Either way though, I don't think the republicans will win in 2012.

 

If by "She will Palin his campaign" you mean "She almost helped him win" then sure.

 

But you seem to be forgetting that Palin was a positive influence on the voters at the time.

 

If Palin ran *now* on a ticket, she would absolutely kill a campaign, but she didn't kill the campaign back then.

 

Put it this way, in a head to head between Palin and Biden, neither side had any clear advantage.

 

Anyway...

 

Palin and Bachmann are not the same VP candidate at all. Palin is a Bushesque character. Stumbling, goofy, loveable, scary, loony etc. Bachman is just a tea party candidate.

 

Bachmann has a pretty clear record in her campaigns and policy, so it won't really be a shock to anyone.

 

The advantage to Bachmann is clear. She'll grab the tea party vote, the woman's vote, and the right wing dems. She'll help polarize the base.

 

Do I think she's the best VP? Nah.

 

Romney/Pawlenty is probably the ideal candidate team. But if taking Bachmann means there is no chance that Palin or another serious Tea Party candidate runs on... Then its absolutely the right choice.

 

Sometimes the best candidate isn't always the most qualified or the one that will translate into the most votes... It's the one that keeps your side cohesive.

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Sometimes the best candidate isn't always the most qualified or the one that will translate into the most votes... It's the one that keeps your side cohesive.

 

Exactly. In the end, it's all about who can win the election. A lot of times, the nominee is the best pick to win the primary, but not the best pick to win the actual election. I'd love to see the GOP get it right for once, since it seems the Dems have been 2 for 3.5 in the past couple decades.

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